The Greens are a center-left party that focuses on environmental issues in most of Germany. But their local branch in Baden-Württemberg is way more centrist and even economically conservative, without a big focus on environmental issues. For example, they’re quite friendly towards the car industry, which is big in BW. This has made them very successful in a state that was firmly in the grips of the christian-conservative CDU for many decades. But it has kind of alienated them from the rest of the Greens.
Black is the colour of the CDU, the most relevant conservative Party in Germany.The Greens of Baden-Württemberg (the german state in question) have many weird and conservative tendencies, from a strong approval of homeopathy to a favor of “politics behind closed doors”. Cem Özdemir, the green primary candidate for new prime minister, was secretary of agriculture with the former federal government (traffic light coalition) and in that role fought tooth and nails to keep environmetally harmful state subsidies for farmers, fighting a red herring instead of fighting for farmers against food corporations (those farmers protests were a clusterfuck and nothing was actually and substantially resolved, but different discussion).
There is a saying in Germany: “The BaWü Greens are more conservative than the Schleswig-Holstein CDU.” This saying can also be reversed (“The Schleswig-Holstein CDU is greener than the BaWü Greens.”)
Schleswig-Holstein (SH) is the northernmost state in Germany, Baden-Württemberg (BaWü) with Bavaria one of the two southernmost states, and both SH and BaWü are governed by a coalition of CDU and Greens. However, in SH the CDU is the senior partner in the coalition providing the prime minister with the Greens being in the junior role while in BaWü the roles are reversed (up to now the Greens are senior providing the prime minister and CDU is junior), but the government politics in SH are by far greener and more progressive in BaWü.
Another moniker for the Baden-Württemberg Greens is “the CSU of the Greens.” The CSU is the CDU’s sister party in Bavaria (there’s no CDU in Bavaria), but even more populist and right wing than the main party.
CDU/CSU (Union) I’d compare to the Rockefeller Republicans, though nowadays with an icky nationalistic tint.
SPD is what Bernie would claim to be, but doesn’t encapsulate what Bernie is, having sold out sometimes to neolibs. Bernie is what the SPD would’ve been, had it held its head straight.
Linke can be comparable to the DSA (Democratic Socialists USA).
BSW is a weird thing. I mean, it’s a populist one-woman show designed to keep that woman in the discussion so she keeps getting invited and can sell her talks, but what Wagenknecht argues for are a. tankie takes and cuddling with Putin, and b. kinda socialist takes but only for germans. If it was a term not loaded with such historic weight and meaning, you could call the party “national socialist”.
Now, obviously actual national socialists, Nazis, were what they were, the absolute worst thing you could ever imagine. But without that context and taking the terms at face value, that would be BSW.
Call me stupid (and you’d be justified for calling me so!), but I feel like it’s a good thing if BSW is there in that it snoops votes away from people who otherwise vote AfD. They’re both terrible, but BSW at least tries to fight privatisation where AfD puts everything into the hands of unelected profit-motivated tech moguls.
That said, I’d take the SDP, Grünen and Linke over those anyday.
Interesting. Many more people who didn’t vote before, I see. About 1,880,000 votes.
So, about …
23.4% from SPD
21.3% who didn’t vote before
18.6% from Linke
13.8% from FDP
11.7% from Union
8% from Grünen
3.2% from AfD
Interesting. So it mainly got votes from the “non-Green” Left and non-voters, with FDP, Union, and Grünen having less joiners, but nonetheless fairly evenly distributed, and AfD last.
Greens in BaWü - Dark Green - Because they are more like Republicans which arent opposed to renewables.
The Republicans are full on Nazis today. The BaWü Greens are not even close to as far to the right. Probably more like Democrats with some green paint.
Yeah. You cant map the parties one to one either way. In some ways the Democrats are more right leaning than the CDU. But relative to each other it makes more or less sense considering how condensed and simplified i made it.
Interesting. I think that there’s always been a tension between labor and environmentalists.
In the long term environmentally friendly policies help everyone, but in the short term they often inflict pain on someone, and often the workers (or farmers) bear the brunt of that, so they oppose the changes. Consider closing down factories that are polluting, or forcing farms to stop using pesticides.
If you do feelgood environmental policy aimed at the emotional wellbeing of upper middle class academics on the back of, or with utter disregard for the working class, while the rich get to pollute all they like, you’ll get tensions with the working class.
If there now is no decent working class party, the working class voters will instead flock to whoever bashes the Greens the loudest. Guess who that is.
The Reps tried that strategy in the 1980s and ever since got seized by the fascists. It always starts with business and reactionary people and ends in fascism.
You can’t defeat the Democrats by going fascist - you then will destroy democracy and business. Only by going left and centre, can one improve life.
Will you please explain more? I can barely keep up with local politics so don’t know anything about German parties…
The Greens are a center-left party that focuses on environmental issues in most of Germany. But their local branch in Baden-Württemberg is way more centrist and even economically conservative, without a big focus on environmental issues. For example, they’re quite friendly towards the car industry, which is big in BW. This has made them very successful in a state that was firmly in the grips of the christian-conservative CDU for many decades. But it has kind of alienated them from the rest of the Greens.
Black is the colour of the CDU, the most relevant conservative Party in Germany.The Greens of Baden-Württemberg (the german state in question) have many weird and conservative tendencies, from a strong approval of homeopathy to a favor of “politics behind closed doors”. Cem Özdemir, the green primary candidate for new prime minister, was secretary of agriculture with the former federal government (traffic light coalition) and in that role fought tooth and nails to keep environmetally harmful state subsidies for farmers, fighting a red herring instead of fighting for farmers against food corporations (those farmers protests were a clusterfuck and nothing was actually and substantially resolved, but different discussion).
There is a saying in Germany: “The BaWü Greens are more conservative than the Schleswig-Holstein CDU.” This saying can also be reversed (“The Schleswig-Holstein CDU is greener than the BaWü Greens.”)
Schleswig-Holstein (SH) is the northernmost state in Germany, Baden-Württemberg (BaWü) with Bavaria one of the two southernmost states, and both SH and BaWü are governed by a coalition of CDU and Greens. However, in SH the CDU is the senior partner in the coalition providing the prime minister with the Greens being in the junior role while in BaWü the roles are reversed (up to now the Greens are senior providing the prime minister and CDU is junior), but the government politics in SH are by far greener and more progressive in BaWü.
Another moniker for the Baden-Württemberg Greens is “the CSU of the Greens.” The CSU is the CDU’s sister party in Bavaria (there’s no CDU in Bavaria), but even more populist and right wing than the main party.
CDU - Black - Pre-MAGA Republicans
SPD - Red - Democrats with the same lack of Spine
Greens - Green - But apart from enviroment stuff not as progressive as one might think
FDP - Yellow - Libs
Linke - Red - Left
AFD - Blue - MAGA
Greens in BaWü - Dark Green - Because they are more like Republicans which arent opposed to renewables.
CDU/CSU (Union) I’d compare to the Rockefeller Republicans, though nowadays with an icky nationalistic tint.
SPD is what Bernie would claim to be, but doesn’t encapsulate what Bernie is, having sold out sometimes to neolibs. Bernie is what the SPD would’ve been, had it held its head straight.
Linke can be comparable to the DSA (Democratic Socialists USA).
FDP - Establishment Democrats
AfD - what you said, MAGA
Bundnis - What MAGAhats think communists are
BSW is a weird thing. I mean, it’s a populist one-woman show designed to keep that woman in the discussion so she keeps getting invited and can sell her talks, but what Wagenknecht argues for are a. tankie takes and cuddling with Putin, and b. kinda socialist takes but only for germans. If it was a term not loaded with such historic weight and meaning, you could call the party “national socialist”.
Now, obviously actual national socialists, Nazis, were what they were, the absolute worst thing you could ever imagine. But without that context and taking the terms at face value, that would be BSW.
Call me stupid (and you’d be justified for calling me so!), but I feel like it’s a good thing if BSW is there in that it snoops votes away from people who otherwise vote AfD. They’re both terrible, but BSW at least tries to fight privatisation where AfD puts everything into the hands of unelected profit-motivated tech moguls.
That said, I’d take the SDP, Grünen and Linke over those anyday.
That doesn’t quite work though, BSW doesn’t attract many AfD voters.
Huh. Where does its voter base then come from?
From antivaxer idiots who don’t vote Nazis and tankies who don’t vote The Left.
https://www.tagesschau.de/wahl/archiv/2025-02-23-BT-DE/charts/analyse-wanderung/chart_1873623.shtml
Here is a graph showing which party voters who voted BSW in the federal election of 2025 in the 2021 feseral election.
Interesting. Many more people who didn’t vote before, I see. About 1,880,000 votes.
So, about …
23.4% from SPD
21.3% who didn’t vote before
18.6% from Linke
13.8% from FDP
11.7% from Union
8% from Grünen
3.2% from AfD
Interesting. So it mainly got votes from the “non-Green” Left and non-voters, with FDP, Union, and Grünen having less joiners, but nonetheless fairly evenly distributed, and AfD last.
How about AfD?
The Republicans are full on Nazis today. The BaWü Greens are not even close to as far to the right. Probably more like Democrats with some green paint.
Yeah. You cant map the parties one to one either way. In some ways the Democrats are more right leaning than the CDU. But relative to each other it makes more or less sense considering how condensed and simplified i made it.
Interesting. I think that there’s always been a tension between labor and environmentalists.
In the long term environmentally friendly policies help everyone, but in the short term they often inflict pain on someone, and often the workers (or farmers) bear the brunt of that, so they oppose the changes. Consider closing down factories that are polluting, or forcing farms to stop using pesticides.
If you do feelgood environmental policy aimed at the emotional wellbeing of upper middle class academics on the back of, or with utter disregard for the working class, while the rich get to pollute all they like, you’ll get tensions with the working class.
If there now is no decent working class party, the working class voters will instead flock to whoever bashes the Greens the loudest. Guess who that is.
Parties that start with a capital A are Nazis, the rest are mostly ok.
Though the CDU/CSU party keeps trying to move right to get some of those A* voters and it’s not working.
The Reps tried that strategy in the 1980s and ever since got seized by the fascists. It always starts with business and reactionary people and ends in fascism.
You can’t defeat the Democrats by going fascist - you then will destroy democracy and business. Only by going left and centre, can one improve life.
In Germany we do have experience with that, too. Guess how Hitler got into office back in the day.
Apparently nobody remembers, unfortunately.