That takes a lot of initiatives and some time but critically it also requires us to stay togetger and strengthen cooperation within the EU. That is also actually exactly why the propaganda you are falling for is trying to destroy this cooperation and the EU.
There is a lot going on and many efforts have accelerated in recent years: rapid transition to renewable energy, Gallileo, Iris2, stronger EU based defense cooperation, contingency trade framework with other global players, Digital Euro and Wero, recent push by France to fully replace Windows, Teams, MS Office in public adminustration (which later on also delivers the blueprint for the private sector to enable transition to sovereign solutions) …
You do realize that it was the US, too, backing the Orbans there, right?
Yes. I think the US is fully lucid about Trump and they were sending Vance to finish Orban. They must still remember how Tesla tanked after Musk supported Trump.
I am puzzled by Orban. He needed the votes of the center. How can he believe that Vance helps?
On the other side the US have fully embraced disinformation. Trump is seen as working for Putin while taking out Putin’s allies.
What people believe doesn’t matter, as long as they are divided. The US switched to coercion. They accept to be hated by the population as long as countries still have to cooperate.
For the unity of the EU, the election is a success. My fear is that the US has been prepared and is controlling the top. Then that unity will be a disadvantage.
the way the US and Russian regime want you to view.
They have fundamentally different goals.
The US have deep influence on the established parties. The politicians and managers are part of their networks like the world economic forum.
Russia can only try to disrupt this by supporting new parties that are a threat to the established parties.
The US want a dysfunctional EU with a working economy but with bad enough living conditions that their own workers don’t get envious.
Russia is the junior partner to the EU and thus can accept a functional EU as long as they are treated as an equal. However as long as they remain independent they will always be a risk to other EU countries because they could become the biggest economy.
To Russia, the EU under US control is a threat whereas an independent EU can be a partner.
Trump has turned the US into a threat to the EU but the US have not been fond of an independent EU for a long time.
But in the meantime, it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus also of challenging America.
There is no such thing as a dysfunctional EU with a working economy. The economy of the member states rests on the Single Market which rests on a functioning political Union. There goes already one assumption.
To think Russia considers being a “junior partner to the EU” is borderline delusional. Russia needs the EU functionally destroyed, consequences be dammed because it absolutely insists on rebuilding its empire and oppressing as well as exploiting half of Europe in the process in the mid to long term as great power. This is only possible with the EU being functionally destroyed because it needs to divide and rule for that goal to be achievable.
You insisting that the EU is under US control is detached from reality, when the US has not only turned openly hostile towards the EU, and started supporting the very same forces that Russia is supporting which do not aim for an indpendent EU but the opposite, a dysfunctional EU with national capitals being bought by foreign powers. Also there have been numerous major areas of policy making that Washington DC is absolutely furious about. If that is what an institution controlled by the US does, you have a curious definition of “controlled”.
There is no such thing as a dysfunctional EU with a working economy
The EU ignored the digital dependency on the US for years. That seems dysfunctional to me.
needs the EU functionally destroyed, consequences be dammed because it absolutely insists on rebuilding its empire
That was different in 2001, when Putin gave a speech to the German parliament.
oppressing as well as exploiting half of Europe
What’s your reason for believing this?
If that is what an institution controlled by the US does, you have a curious definition of “controlled”.
The EU is not an American colony. The US control with whatever they have. That’s chaotic. The US have influence on every major party, at least in Germany. I have read stories about each one. Of course they start taking over the parties that Russia supports once they become relevant.
You seem to have a funny definition of “dysfunctional” or confuse the term with “politically shortsighted”.
Europe did have a relationship with the US that was beneficial to both sides, that was the basis of it and the reason it worked for so long. This has ended, one could have seen it coming much earlier and indeed France has seen it coming for a long time and is therefore also one of the best prepared member states but even France has been complacent when it comes to modern IT infrastructure. That has little to do with being dysfunctional.
I am wondering if you are really that naive and truly believe that Putin ever intended to see the EU member states as equal partners. His rhetoric have changed indeed his goals not really, at best his means have become increasingly bloody and ruthless. If you can’t see that Russia wants to rebuild its colonial empire in Europe I really can’t help you. And if you can’t see that colonial empires are based on oppression and exploitation I can’t help you either. Maybe read how the old East Block worked economically, communist economy aside it was just the same old story.
You really seem to believe the US to be all powerful apparently. This has little to do with reality and lies at odds with the actual EU legislation which is often at odds with what the US would like. Does the US have influence? Of course it has but it is not nearly as total as you seem to believe and it is rooted in Europe’s dependence. I listed a boat load of initiatives that are being undertaken right now to reduce those dependencies for that very reason. Most of them are something the US opposes to varying degrees (from mildly to hysterically). If your world view held any water, hardly any of those would exist.
European unification happened of course in the context of “PAX America” but it was formed by the interests of many players. The fading away of the Western European Union was certainly a consequence of US opposition for example. That does not change the fact that a unified Europe within the EU is the only realistic chance for European autonomy and shared sovereignty without being vassals of either the US or Russia, which is as I said, the key reason why the US and the Russian regime are firing with all their propaganda might against the EU nowadays and you appear to have completely fallen for it.
was beneficial to both side … could have seen it coming
China producing everything is also beneficial to both sides but we know what it means. Airbus was created to prevent dependency. IT technology is more important. Russia has its own search engine, we don’t have one. That’s not short-sightedness, that is closing eyes.
if you are really that naive and truly believe that Putin ever intended to see the EU member states as equal partners.
I guess I am. How could Putin be able to succeed in domination? I can’t imagine that he is that deluded. He has to mean equal terms when he says it.
And if you can’t see that colonial empires are based on oppression and exploitation I can’t help you either.
To me it looks like we are staying in and becoming even more part of the US empire. Can you see that? We have our projects, but e.g. all the space stuff, we can’t compete on launch costs and there is no improvement in sight.
Maybe read how the old East Block worked economically, communist economy aside it was just the same old story.
It’s fundamentally different. The West was successful because we exploited Africa and Asia. The much smaller East couldn’t compensate. It’s like Cuba in big with the difference that it is not Cuba’s decision to be isolated. China did the joined market and is thriving. The USSR wanted to correct and got dismantled in the process, thanks to Yeltsin.
The Capitalists have managed to frame Communism as Russian imperialism while it was done by a Georgian and later continued by a Ukrainian. There are ethnic elements but it was also Russia who left the USSR. Are Russians to blame when a Georgian resettles them?
Of course it has but it is not nearly as total as you seem to believe and it is rooted in Europe’s dependence.
I believe that. That’s enough.
If your world view held any water, hardly any of those would exist.
The US don’t need total control. They just need enough that Europe stays dependent and they can e.g. bomb Iran without the EU treating it like that other war of aggression which would call for sanctioning the US.
The fading away of the Western European Union was certainly a consequence of US opposition
What do you mean?
That does not change the fact that a unified Europe within the EU is the only realistic chance for European autonomy
To an extend. I don’t think we have to become a unified European state. Once we do, Brussels will be conquered like Washington.
Also don’t forget that creating an economic zone with the Russian Federation could be an option and could turn the EU into a major power. Combine it with a capital tax and it could become something where we don’t fear for our autonomy but can be a guardian of freedom.
The difficult part would be to find a form that doesn’t threaten the US.
without being vassals of either the US or Russia, which is as I said, the key reason why the US and the Russian regime are firing with all their propaganda might against the EU nowadays and you appear to have completely fallen for it.
was beneficial to both side
I think the US and Russia shouldn’t be seen as the same. The EU will remain a vassal of the US because we are at war with Russia and can’t play them against each other, or even pull Russia into our fold. Russia has more land but we are bigger.
We say that the US is not our friend anymore but we continue to install Palantir and we condemn Iran’s reaction but not the US attack. We say one thing but do the other.
That is an easy one. Putin would have no problem with a corrupt EU, nor would Trump, yet they absolutely loath the EU.
Also on a systematic level your idea is just deeply uninformed. The EU is an extremely multi-centric institution, pretty much the opposite of an authoriatirian state after Gleichschaltung where everything is super centralised and you only have to corrupt very few to get the result you want. That by itself makes corruption extremely expensive and also risky (as there are so many eyes on the process) because you have to corrupt so many different players to get the result you want. Another reason why Trump and Putin try so hysterically to destroy the EU, other than the capability of the EU to create unified action, even if it arises out of such a multicentric machinery.
I find it entertaining to think that corrupt politicians would be bound to the US. Take the corrupt AfD, its leading candidate for the EU election was corrupted by not one but several foreign powers. By all means, they appear to sell out German interests to pretty much any foreign power that is willing to pay enough.
The European Commission is way less powerful in the EU context than any national government in the national context. It is one of the major players but only one of a handful and cannot do much without the support from other players.
You do realize that it was the US, too, backing the Orbans there, right?
Psst. Don’t confuse our comrade here.
Then help me out, please. How is Europe going to become independent?
That takes a lot of initiatives and some time but critically it also requires us to stay togetger and strengthen cooperation within the EU. That is also actually exactly why the propaganda you are falling for is trying to destroy this cooperation and the EU.
There is a lot going on and many efforts have accelerated in recent years: rapid transition to renewable energy, Gallileo, Iris2, stronger EU based defense cooperation, contingency trade framework with other global players, Digital Euro and Wero, recent push by France to fully replace Windows, Teams, MS Office in public adminustration (which later on also delivers the blueprint for the private sector to enable transition to sovereign solutions) …
Yes. I think the US is fully lucid about Trump and they were sending Vance to finish Orban. They must still remember how Tesla tanked after Musk supported Trump.
I am puzzled by Orban. He needed the votes of the center. How can he believe that Vance helps?
On the other side the US have fully embraced disinformation. Trump is seen as working for Putin while taking out Putin’s allies.
What people believe doesn’t matter, as long as they are divided. The US switched to coercion. They accept to be hated by the population as long as countries still have to cooperate.
For the unity of the EU, the election is a success. My fear is that the US has been prepared and is controlling the top. Then that unity will be a disadvantage.
Congratulation, your paranoia has lead you to view the EU exactly in the way the US and Russian regime want you to view.
They have fundamentally different goals.
The US have deep influence on the established parties. The politicians and managers are part of their networks like the world economic forum.
Russia can only try to disrupt this by supporting new parties that are a threat to the established parties.
The US want a dysfunctional EU with a working economy but with bad enough living conditions that their own workers don’t get envious.
Russia is the junior partner to the EU and thus can accept a functional EU as long as they are treated as an equal. However as long as they remain independent they will always be a risk to other EU countries because they could become the biggest economy.
To Russia, the EU under US control is a threat whereas an independent EU can be a partner.
Trump has turned the US into a threat to the EU but the US have not been fond of an independent EU for a long time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard
There is no such thing as a dysfunctional EU with a working economy. The economy of the member states rests on the Single Market which rests on a functioning political Union. There goes already one assumption.
To think Russia considers being a “junior partner to the EU” is borderline delusional. Russia needs the EU functionally destroyed, consequences be dammed because it absolutely insists on rebuilding its empire and oppressing as well as exploiting half of Europe in the process in the mid to long term as great power. This is only possible with the EU being functionally destroyed because it needs to divide and rule for that goal to be achievable.
You insisting that the EU is under US control is detached from reality, when the US has not only turned openly hostile towards the EU, and started supporting the very same forces that Russia is supporting which do not aim for an indpendent EU but the opposite, a dysfunctional EU with national capitals being bought by foreign powers. Also there have been numerous major areas of policy making that Washington DC is absolutely furious about. If that is what an institution controlled by the US does, you have a curious definition of “controlled”.
The EU ignored the digital dependency on the US for years. That seems dysfunctional to me.
That was different in 2001, when Putin gave a speech to the German parliament.
What’s your reason for believing this?
The EU is not an American colony. The US control with whatever they have. That’s chaotic. The US have influence on every major party, at least in Germany. I have read stories about each one. Of course they start taking over the parties that Russia supports once they become relevant.
The EU started as a counter-measure to French-German unity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Élysée_Treaty controversy
No EU is better than a dysfunctional EU but a dysfunctional EU is better than a functional one for the US.
You seem to have a funny definition of “dysfunctional” or confuse the term with “politically shortsighted”. Europe did have a relationship with the US that was beneficial to both sides, that was the basis of it and the reason it worked for so long. This has ended, one could have seen it coming much earlier and indeed France has seen it coming for a long time and is therefore also one of the best prepared member states but even France has been complacent when it comes to modern IT infrastructure. That has little to do with being dysfunctional.
I am wondering if you are really that naive and truly believe that Putin ever intended to see the EU member states as equal partners. His rhetoric have changed indeed his goals not really, at best his means have become increasingly bloody and ruthless. If you can’t see that Russia wants to rebuild its colonial empire in Europe I really can’t help you. And if you can’t see that colonial empires are based on oppression and exploitation I can’t help you either. Maybe read how the old East Block worked economically, communist economy aside it was just the same old story.
You really seem to believe the US to be all powerful apparently. This has little to do with reality and lies at odds with the actual EU legislation which is often at odds with what the US would like. Does the US have influence? Of course it has but it is not nearly as total as you seem to believe and it is rooted in Europe’s dependence. I listed a boat load of initiatives that are being undertaken right now to reduce those dependencies for that very reason. Most of them are something the US opposes to varying degrees (from mildly to hysterically). If your world view held any water, hardly any of those would exist.
European unification happened of course in the context of “PAX America” but it was formed by the interests of many players. The fading away of the Western European Union was certainly a consequence of US opposition for example. That does not change the fact that a unified Europe within the EU is the only realistic chance for European autonomy and shared sovereignty without being vassals of either the US or Russia, which is as I said, the key reason why the US and the Russian regime are firing with all their propaganda might against the EU nowadays and you appear to have completely fallen for it.
China producing everything is also beneficial to both sides but we know what it means. Airbus was created to prevent dependency. IT technology is more important. Russia has its own search engine, we don’t have one. That’s not short-sightedness, that is closing eyes.
I guess I am. How could Putin be able to succeed in domination? I can’t imagine that he is that deluded. He has to mean equal terms when he says it.
To me it looks like we are staying in and becoming even more part of the US empire. Can you see that? We have our projects, but e.g. all the space stuff, we can’t compete on launch costs and there is no improvement in sight.
It’s fundamentally different. The West was successful because we exploited Africa and Asia. The much smaller East couldn’t compensate. It’s like Cuba in big with the difference that it is not Cuba’s decision to be isolated. China did the joined market and is thriving. The USSR wanted to correct and got dismantled in the process, thanks to Yeltsin.
The Capitalists have managed to frame Communism as Russian imperialism while it was done by a Georgian and later continued by a Ukrainian. There are ethnic elements but it was also Russia who left the USSR. Are Russians to blame when a Georgian resettles them?
I believe that. That’s enough.
The US don’t need total control. They just need enough that Europe stays dependent and they can e.g. bomb Iran without the EU treating it like that other war of aggression which would call for sanctioning the US.
What do you mean?
To an extend. I don’t think we have to become a unified European state. Once we do, Brussels will be conquered like Washington.
Also don’t forget that creating an economic zone with the Russian Federation could be an option and could turn the EU into a major power. Combine it with a capital tax and it could become something where we don’t fear for our autonomy but can be a guardian of freedom.
The difficult part would be to find a form that doesn’t threaten the US.
I think the US and Russia shouldn’t be seen as the same. The EU will remain a vassal of the US because we are at war with Russia and can’t play them against each other, or even pull Russia into our fold. Russia has more land but we are bigger.
We say that the US is not our friend anymore but we continue to install Palantir and we condemn Iran’s reaction but not the US attack. We say one thing but do the other.
Which is what a corrupt EU would want you to think. How can we actually figure out who is right?
That is an easy one. Putin would have no problem with a corrupt EU, nor would Trump, yet they absolutely loath the EU. Also on a systematic level your idea is just deeply uninformed. The EU is an extremely multi-centric institution, pretty much the opposite of an authoriatirian state after Gleichschaltung where everything is super centralised and you only have to corrupt very few to get the result you want. That by itself makes corruption extremely expensive and also risky (as there are so many eyes on the process) because you have to corrupt so many different players to get the result you want. Another reason why Trump and Putin try so hysterically to destroy the EU, other than the capability of the EU to create unified action, even if it arises out of such a multicentric machinery.
He would, with a EU corrupted by the US.
What about the European Commission?
I find it entertaining to think that corrupt politicians would be bound to the US. Take the corrupt AfD, its leading candidate for the EU election was corrupted by not one but several foreign powers. By all means, they appear to sell out German interests to pretty much any foreign power that is willing to pay enough.
The European Commission is way less powerful in the EU context than any national government in the national context. It is one of the major players but only one of a handful and cannot do much without the support from other players.