Exactly! Because, I’ll repeat it again once more, my problem is not who vetoed when for whom specifically but that it is possible to veto at all for a certain group of countries. Got it?
that is simply not how countries operate. Well, except for…
Yea… no. See attached the number of vetoes. Reality paints a different picture.
but it goes against both prior and current behavior of the parties involved.
It doesn’t go against current and I explained why I expect different than prior behaviour. And you?
Once again, you’re criticizing Iran for announcing destruction they haven’t actually done
No. Iran has supported, organised, financed terror against Israel for a very very long time and the destruction stemming from that is very real and palpable. I’m criticising Iran for a goal they openly state and which they actively try to achieve. When it comes to Israel, these citizens don’t have the hypothetical but very real option to vote and change politics accordingly. Opposed to the Mullahs, Netanyahu actually has to fear public opinion and the political opposition, as there, it can actually put him out of office. The Mullahs will just shoot the people in the streets instead. But again, you deviate from the question: is Iran ready to accept the existence of Israel?
Yes you do, you just don’t realize it, because you think right isn’t made by might if it’s made by might you agree with.
I don’t. I told you before: I just can accept that in a situation where the body responsible for exerting international law and the protection of basic human rights is not working, its member states, facing exigent circumstances, themselves take matters into their own hands instead of watching idly.
And since you agree that laws are stupid and working through the system to get what you want is a waste of time, then clearly you’re fine with them following the precedent.
No. I said that the examples you provided all already operate under the principle “might makes right”. What you’re trying to sell here to me and yourself as a reaction to the - of course! - initial source of injustice that is the “eternal enemy USA”, has in fact always been the case. Have a skim through the linked list of issued vetoes. You’ll be surprised how blatantly calculating and motivated by their own goods these votes were right from the start. And which side especially used the veto in that first period.
Yea… no. See attached the number of vetoes. Reality paints a different picture.
Ah, you’re finally looking stuff up. Fantastic. I don’t know what picture you think the graph paints, but I’ll take the win.
It doesn’t go against current
Yes it does. There was no veto for sanctions. That’s the current. You’re doing it again.
No. Iran has supported, organised, financed terror against Israel for a very very long time and the destruction stemming from that is very real and palpable. I’m criticising Iran for a goal they openly state and which they actively try to achieve.
That’s exactly it - I don’t see them trying to achieve it. I could be wrong, but I don’t even remember them attacking Israel directly at all before a couple of years ago. You’re doing it again.
When it comes to Israel, these citizens don’t have the hypothetical but very real option to vote and change politics accordingly. Opposed to the Mullahs, Netanyahu actually has to fear public opinion and the political opposition, as there, it can actually put him out of office. The Mullahs will just shoot the people in the streets instead. But again, you deviate from the question: is Iran ready to accept the existence of Israel?
They have the option, yet the action is still hypothetical. You’re doing it again.
I don’t. I told you before: I just can accept that in a situation where the body responsible for exerting international law and the protection of basic human rights is not working, its member states, facing exigent circumstances, themselves take matters into their own hands instead of watching idly.
And who makes the right decides what counts as exigent circumstances? That’s right. The mighty.
No. I said that the examples you provided all already operate under the principle “might makes right”. What you’re trying to sell here to me and yourself as a reaction to the - of course! - initial source of injustice that is the “eternal enemy USA”, has in fact always been the case. Have a skim through the linked list of issued vetoes. You’ll be surprised how blatantly calculating and motivated by their own goods these votes were right from the start. And which side especially used the veto in that first period.
…Wait, you think there’s such a thing as an initial source of injustice? And you think I’m arguing it’s America? Christ on a stick, every fucking thing is a team sport to you people. Though I shouldn’t be surprised, you are after all arguing that breaking the laws is good when the good guys do it. What I’m trying to sell - of course! - here is that either there are laws, or there are no laws. If you believe it’s acceptable to discard law where it hobbles you, then you’re arguing that it’s acceptable for anyone to discard law where it hobbles them. And when told this is what “might makes right” is, your reaction - of course! - is “We don’t do that, also, everyone does that!”. Which is why you’re blaming Iran for things Israel does, because “everyone does that” so they must do it too, and then absolving Israel for things they are doing, because “we don’t do that”, so it’s clearly a fluke.
I could be wrong, but I don’t even remember them attacking Israel directly at all before a couple of years ago.
Well, you will know why you sneaked in “directly” here. Iran is the main sponsor of the terrorist groups exerting violence against Israel for decades. It doesn’t matter if they use the hands of others to harm their enemy. But I’m sure we actually both know that, so what’s there left to say.
But again, you deviate from the question: is Iran ready to accept the existence of Israel?
And who makes the right decides what counts as exigent circumstances? That’s right. The mighty.
As has been the case all along. Your point being?
Wait, you think there’s such a thing as an initial source of injustice?
I absolutely don’t. Do you?
every fucking thing is a team sport to you people.
There has been only one person trying to drag the whole discussion into a competition between Israel/US and Iran/Russia. And that wasn’t me. In fact, I’ve tried to tell you numerous times that I don’t care at all about who did what when but only about the underlying mechanisms that allow this behaviour - by both teams! I’m under the strong impression that you are getting really emotional about points you read into my words but which I didn’t make at all and hence this is a discussion where we’re talking at cross-purposes.
Exactly! Because, I’ll repeat it again once more, my problem is not who vetoed when for whom specifically but that it is possible to veto at all for a certain group of countries. Got it?
Yea… no. See attached the number of vetoes. Reality paints a different picture.
Source
It doesn’t go against current and I explained why I expect different than prior behaviour. And you?
No. Iran has supported, organised, financed terror against Israel for a very very long time and the destruction stemming from that is very real and palpable. I’m criticising Iran for a goal they openly state and which they actively try to achieve. When it comes to Israel, these citizens don’t have the hypothetical but very real option to vote and change politics accordingly. Opposed to the Mullahs, Netanyahu actually has to fear public opinion and the political opposition, as there, it can actually put him out of office. The Mullahs will just shoot the people in the streets instead. But again, you deviate from the question: is Iran ready to accept the existence of Israel?
I don’t. I told you before: I just can accept that in a situation where the body responsible for exerting international law and the protection of basic human rights is not working, its member states, facing exigent circumstances, themselves take matters into their own hands instead of watching idly.
No. I said that the examples you provided all already operate under the principle “might makes right”. What you’re trying to sell here to me and yourself as a reaction to the - of course! - initial source of injustice that is the “eternal enemy USA”, has in fact always been the case. Have a skim through the linked list of issued vetoes. You’ll be surprised how blatantly calculating and motivated by their own goods these votes were right from the start. And which side especially used the veto in that first period.
Ah, you’re finally looking stuff up. Fantastic. I don’t know what picture you think the graph paints, but I’ll take the win.
Yes it does. There was no veto for sanctions. That’s the current. You’re doing it again.
That’s exactly it - I don’t see them trying to achieve it. I could be wrong, but I don’t even remember them attacking Israel directly at all before a couple of years ago. You’re doing it again.
They have the option, yet the action is still hypothetical. You’re doing it again.
And who
makes the rightdecides what counts as exigent circumstances? That’s right. The mighty.…Wait, you think there’s such a thing as an initial source of injustice? And you think I’m arguing it’s America? Christ on a stick, every fucking thing is a team sport to you people. Though I shouldn’t be surprised, you are after all arguing that breaking the laws is good when the good guys do it. What I’m trying to sell - of course! - here is that either there are laws, or there are no laws. If you believe it’s acceptable to discard law where it hobbles you, then you’re arguing that it’s acceptable for anyone to discard law where it hobbles them. And when told this is what “might makes right” is, your reaction - of course! - is “We don’t do that, also, everyone does that!”. Which is why you’re blaming Iran for things Israel does, because “everyone does that” so they must do it too, and then absolving Israel for things they are doing, because “we don’t do that”, so it’s clearly a fluke.
Check out the attached link to the source, that should make it clearer what the graph is showing.
Sure! Sounds just like him. Non-stop winning.
Well, you will know why you sneaked in “directly” here. Iran is the main sponsor of the terrorist groups exerting violence against Israel for decades. It doesn’t matter if they use the hands of others to harm their enemy. But I’m sure we actually both know that, so what’s there left to say.
But again, you deviate from the question: is Iran ready to accept the existence of Israel?
As has been the case all along. Your point being?
I absolutely don’t. Do you?
There has been only one person trying to drag the whole discussion into a competition between Israel/US and Iran/Russia. And that wasn’t me. In fact, I’ve tried to tell you numerous times that I don’t care at all about who did what when but only about the underlying mechanisms that allow this behaviour - by both teams! I’m under the strong impression that you are getting really emotional about points you read into my words but which I didn’t make at all and hence this is a discussion where we’re talking at cross-purposes.